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point, joy, about religion and you know, religious traditions, it will be interesting to see how the catholic church handles this in the coming years. i heard a little more wiggle room than perhaps you heard. i heard him saying this is not -- eight years ago, you would have heard republicans making demeaning, dismissive, derisive -- >> the tone of it was i'm trapped here, i'm an old guy, who believes what i believe. i'm kind of trapped here. >> he might resemble your remark, jacob, more than you think. he might be there with his conscience more than you think. >> were you for gay marriage when you ran for senate? >> i've had like many americans have had an evolution on this over the past six years, living here in new york, my wife has help immediate understand this i differently. it didn't really bother me who got married. but where i came from, my pastor told me and my church told me there was one way. and the older i got and the smarter i got and the more mature i got and i married a smart woman. >> uh-huh. >> all right, james i want to ask you since we're talking about hillary
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